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2014 Montana retreat??

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chocake2 replied on Thu, Oct 24 2013 9:57 AM

Here's a link to the Glacier Park info sight. 'Might be useful for some of you. http://www.nps.gov/glac/planyourvisit/index.htm

Quilters are people who strip so they won't go topless.

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Donna B replied on Thu, Oct 24 2013 11:07 AM

MNnancy:

And phooey, I won't be able to do Oregon because we don't own studded tires and/or chains - illegal to use on Minnesota roads.  Kris, I guess we'll have to attend each other's retreat virtually.  Look at how fast new people helped to fill that Oregon retreat!

Nancy, you do NOT have to have studded tires and/or chains to drive on roads in the snow here...especially if you have an all-wheel or 4-wheel drive vehicle.  Winter rated snow tires are our option of choice and you have seen our driveway - they are all we use.  With a Subaru we have never "needed" studded tires or chains on the highways!   However, WA State requires chains to be carried in the vehicle crossing mountain passes during winter months...so we buy the cheapest available (chains are not recommended and won't even fit on our current car) and they just take up storage space.  

 

 Winthrop, WA

 

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gini replied on Thu, Oct 24 2013 4:12 PM

you can get chains from les swab.  if you don't open the box, you can take them back. 

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gini replied on Thu, Oct 24 2013 4:14 PM

we haven't used chains for more years than i care to remember.   all season radials will get you most any where you want to go.    we drove over stevens pass every weekend for years and never needed them. 

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gini replied on Thu, Oct 24 2013 4:17 PM

now isn't that interesting.   i didn't post a link to all season radials.  the internet gremlins did that all by them ownselves.  let's see if they do it twice. 

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Donna B replied on Thu, Oct 24 2013 4:17 PM

gini:

we haven't used chains for more years than i care to remember.   all season radials will get you most any where you want to go.    we drove over stevens pass every weekend for years and never needed them. 

My point exactly!  You do not need studded tires or chains to drive in the snow.

 

 Winthrop, WA

 

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gini replied on Thu, Oct 24 2013 4:18 PM

and now it took the empasis links off all season radials and put it on , internet, on the next post..    qca has some serious problems looming. 

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Donna B replied on Thu, Oct 24 2013 4:24 PM

gini:

and now it took the empasis links off all season radials and put it on , internet, on the next post..    qca has some serious problems looming. 

Gini, I think you're losing it here.  I didn't see any "empasis links" on all season radials...or the internet either!  Are you talking about the ad column on the right?  I bet you are seeing these on your ipad right?

 

 Winthrop, WA

 

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Quiltless replied on Thu, Oct 24 2013 7:29 PM

Quiltless:

<Laughs> 

CC

I dont' think most people know what the "highline" is, but the 2 of us do.  I haven't heard it called that in many years. 

 

This is the "highline."  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Route_2

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Patti replied on Thu, Oct 24 2013 8:32 PM

Since Donna's comment about studded tires, I have done a little research and some thinking.  I think I will go for the Blizzak type winter/snow tires instead.  There is actually very little advantage to studded tires, specially these days. I have felt more confident with them, but that can cause problems as well.   Studded tires are also have problems with wearing.  They newer required by law "light weight" studs, are softer and don't last as long.  However, these winter snow tires don't wear well either.  Maybe 15,000 miles on them, if only used during snow season.  After that they have lost enough of that special tread to become no better than an "all weather tire."  

When traction tires are advised or chains are required, I have liked the studs because I don't need to use chains.  It's the same with Blizzak before they are too worn.  (but must have chains in the vehicle)  I am going to go look up the WA state law that describes exactly what qualifies as one of those tires, that have traction in snow, etc.  Will post in a minute.

Patti

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Patti replied on Thu, Oct 24 2013 8:35 PM

Here it is:

WAC 204-24-040

Traction devices.

The following equipment items are approved by the state patrol for use as traction devices wherever traction devices are required by the department of transportation:
(1) Tire chains meeting the standards in WAC 204-24-020.
(2) Studded tires meeting the standards in WAC 204-24-030.
(3) Approved traction tires. An approved traction tire must have the following tread characteristics:
(a) A minimum of 4/32 inch tread, measured in the center portion of the tire at three locations equally spaced around the circumference of the tire.
(b) A relatively aggressive tread pattern designed primarily to provide additional starting, stopping, and driving traction on snow or ice. The tread must have ribs, lugs, blocks or buttons the edges of which are at an angle greater than thirty degrees to the tire circumferential centerline.
(c) On at least one side of the tread design, the shoulder lugs protrude at least 1/2-inch in a direction generally perpendicular to the direction of travel.
(d) Tires manufactured to meet these specifications must:
(i) Be permanently labeled on at least one sidewall with the words "mud and snow" or any contraction using the letters "M" and "S" (e.g. MS, M/S, M-S, M & S, etc.); or
(ii) Be permanently labeled on at least one side wall with the mountain/snowflake symbol.
(4) Alternative traction devices. Any alternative traction device approved under this chapter must be used in accordance with the manufacturer's recommendations concerning proper use of the product. The list of approved devices will be maintained on the patrol's web site. Upon suspension or revocation of an approval for an alternative traction device, the device will be removed from the list of approved devices on the patrol's web site.

Patti

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Donna B replied on Thu, Oct 24 2013 9:04 PM

Patti, yes we use the winter tires designated by the "snowflake" symbol.  In the past we have used "mud and snow (M/S)" tires, but the winter "snowflake" tires (according to DH) have a more aggressive tread-pattern.  As I said before, our 2011 Subaru Outback wagon's wheel wells are not adequately sized for chains, so we cannot install them safely on the car - without doing damage.  If you get stuck, our only option is to lay the chains on the ground to drive on and improve traction to help get started moving. (BTW, that has not happened to us with these tires.)

In terms of tire durability, your right...it sucks!  They have a "soft" tread, but that is what helps make them "grip" better.  But with where we live, I just consider it a necessity of life to have those winter tires.  (For those of you that do not know, Patti and I live in an area with 2-3 feet of snow on the ground from about mid-December to early March.  The main roads are plowed regularly [ie: most of the time], but side-roads and driveways are more "iffy".)

 Winthrop, WA

 

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gini replied on Fri, Oct 25 2013 9:28 AM

Have you noticed how far and high these tires throw water and slush off to the sides of the vehicles.   You can tell if the car coming towards you, or in front of you have all season radials, by how much they throw off the road.    

 The emphasis marks disappeared.   When I clicked on the one it took my to a site about buying radial tires.   Something that slipped through the spam blocker that they may have corrected.

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Patti replied on Fri, Oct 25 2013 11:19 AM

All season tires are not the ones Donna and I are talking about.  This is a snow, ice tire and not meant to be used when it is not snow season.  Driving on dry pavement causes terrible wear and it would not be usable for snow come the next fall. 

Donna and I are also about 2 hours drive to the nearest city, so traffic is not generally a concern.

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gini replied on Fri, Oct 25 2013 11:44 AM

we use the same tires year round.

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